Pep – Yes Or No? – 17/11/15

The rumours about Brentford’s potential interest in bringing in current Swansea Assistant Manager Pep Clotet as our new Head Coach received a fairly mixed response from many of the readers of my initial article.

Bill Benn spoke for many of us when he commented:

I hope we keep Paul Williams who has played a big part in the recent upturn of results.

Some, like Jim Rourke felt that his lack of managerial experience counted against him:

My comment would be is that when Pep gets the top job things have not gone well. I would suggest also his appointment as Monk’s assistant coincides with the downturn at Swansea. Sorry to be so negative!

Mark Croxford took issue with this viewpoint and I feel that his rebuttal contains much sense:

How can that be true? Last year Swansea had their best ever season – and that coincided with Clotet’s appointment.

Swansea are probably the nearest model to the way that Brentford operate so it seems to make a fair bit of sense to be interested in someone from there.

Whether he would be the right appointment remains to be seen, of course, and it’s a big jump from being the adviser to the decision maker but with a team of coaches to share the burden, maybe it would be a good move for him?

beesyellow22 expressed his thoughts very emphatically:

The situation at Griffin Park has become like a soap opera this season – it’s hard to keep on top of what’s happening anymore!

Like you Greville, I would love for Carsley to stay in place until the final ball is kicked next May, but apparently the owner does not share this point of view. I understand and appreciate the desire to get the new man in place ASAP but who’s to say it won’t be another Marinus situation – particularly given Clotet’s poor managerial record? We could then find ourselves onto our fourth head coach before we’ve barely gotten into 2016!

If Clotet is indeed to be the new head coach at Griffin Park, then good luck to him. But the big fear for me is that the players have already been through so much already this season, that to get a new man in now could have a real adverse effect and undo all the fantastic work that has been done since Marinus and Roy were given the bullet.

Let’s see what happens, but Clotet’s (admittedly youth-based) managerial record does not fill me with excitement or optimism. In fact, if the plan is to bring in a guy with predominantly youth management experience, why the hell not give the job to Mr. Brentford himself – Kevin O’Connor? He’s doing a great job with the development squad, he knows the club inside out and he is Brentford through and through. Unlike Pep Clotet.

Bill Benn seized upon the hole in this argument – the fact that any managerial change is coming at the request of Lee Carsley and not necessarily Matthew Benham and his Directors of Football:

This is nothing to do with Matthew Benham. Lee Carsley simply doesn’t want to be a manager and wants to go to other pastures as soon as the new coach is in place.

I suggest you check out Lee Carsley’s background in football management too as he hadn’t been too impressive in the short periods he’s been caretaker boss. King Kev as manager at the current time…God give me strength

beesyellow22 was quick to come back in his defence:

It is all very well talking about Carsley not being impressive but facts are facts. We won four on the bounce. The players now know what they are doing. The players are happy once again. The training methods are now working. The players are fitter and stronger. The players (seem to) enjoy playing for Lee Carsley. Pretty much the same players who were failing under Marinus.

“Nothing to do with Matthew Benham”  – this is also extremely wide of the mark! Of course it is everything to do with Benham. Benham is the driving force and the beating heart behind everything that happens behind the scenes. He is a successful and driven businessman and someone who plays to win. Hence the (apparent) decision to now dispense with the services of the man who has a) dragged us kicking and screaming out of a relegation dogfight and b) won the Skybet Championship Manager of the Month award for October! This has EVERYTHING to do with Matthew Benham, presumably hastened by Carsley’s consistent reiteration that he does not want the job.

And why the derision re Kevin O’Connor? How is he any less of a suggestion than Clotet? At least he is passionate about Brentford FC and his early results as Development Squad Manager would appear to be extremely encouraging (I’m interested to hear what your reaction was when Warburton was given the manager’s job…)

Rebel Bee then gave his opinion on the current situation:

In the main I’m with beesyellow22 on this, let’s just rewind to the statements that came out of Griffin Park when Lee Carsley was put in charge until the end of the season. So that went well then didn’t it, as it seems he can’t get away fast enough – so why did he take it and why didn’t Brentford FC just say it was going to be a very short term move?

If Clotet does join I can’t see Carsley or Williams being part of the team going forward. And what has Clotet actually achieved in the game to justify our pursuit of his services?

There seems to be a fascination with overseas coaches, ironically I’d now convinced myself that Edinburgh and Smith could be decent appointments.

Here we go again.

Bill Benn stuck firmly to his guns:

bees yellow22, you said that Lee Carsley is leaving due to Matthew Benham which is complete rubbish and a slur against our owner. How many more times does Lee Carsley have to say that he  doesn’t want the job? In actual fact he hates it and wants to move on.

Lee Carsley has done a good job and I also would have liked him to have continued but he just doesn’t want to. He wants to coach young players as he does with the England Under 19s and it gives him the flexibility for him to work on other things outside of football. I was not dissing Lee Carsley by saying look at his CV but it’s just an example of if he was on our list today as a target check out his history before joining us and you could find many negatives.

We have had an horrendous injury list this season and unfortunately picked the wrong coach in Marinus Dijkhuizen, but this can happen to the best (Manchester United for example.) You might think this season is a soap opera but I among many other fans have enjoyed some great times this season with number one beating that lot down the road as well as our performances against Charlton, Leeds, Wolves, Bristol City and Blackburn to name a few.

When the new manager comes in I expect Lee Carsley to help the transition for a week or so and Paul Williams to stay. I know the majority of our fans will get behind the new man and also expect the usual uninformed clap trap to continue on message boards.

Rebel Bee still hadn’t given up and had an excellent point to make:

Bill we know you’re not dissing Lee Carsley, but if he doesn’t want the job and hates it so much then something has happened right? As a reminder here are the relevant quotes from our Chairman’s statement when he was appointed:

“The Club has moved swiftly and decisively in order to maintain its long-term vision and philosophy. That’s why Lee Carsley has been appointed as Head Coach for the remainder of the season. Lee has shown with the Under 21s that he is an outstanding leader. His work at the training ground has been hugely impressive whilst coaching the development squad and has demonstrated he understands the Club’s philosophy and the ambitions of Brentford FC. We believe these qualities will help Lee settle into his new role effectively and quickly”.

As to his reasons for not wanting to continue, we can only guess and speculate – I don’t blame Matthew Benham for this at all, however the management team shouldn’t get a pass for the Duikhuizen disaster.

I do wonder why once again why we have managed to make a mess of this, even if it is just in the way it was communicated. As for “uninformed clap trap” – really is that your answer to anyone who sees it slightly differently? I think you can do better than that.

Bill Benn was more conciliatory in his response:

“Clap trap” wasn’t aimed at you but the more extreme stuff that has been aimed at Matthew Benham on other forums and social media sites whenever there are decisions being made. I would agree our PR has been dreadful at time over the last twelve months. Lee Carsley has never ever stated that he wanted to be manager until the end of the season although others have been quoted suggesting that for reasons I don’t know, maybe wishful thinking. It’s no secret that he gives a lot of time to charity work and being in youth football gives him the time to do that. I wish him all the best and look forward to the new Head Coach taking over hopefully this week.

As was Rebel Bee and it is hard to argue with what he had to say:

Fair do’s Bill, but there are some wide of the mark views on both sides of this. Like you I have enjoyed some great days already this season – with Charlton and QPR the stand outs. I don’t expect Brentford FC to be top six or chasing promotion either.

I love the league and I’d just be happy to stay in the division with a bit to spare. I’d just like to see us settle down with the coach and players pulling together and playing some decent stuff. And I’d like the club to communicate and do its PR a bit better, so that we don’t need to speculate so much.

I will end with Peter Lumley who had a more radical and resigned viewpoint:

Whoever is appointed it will be just another Matthew Benham gamble with little regard for the views of the Griffin Park faithful.

For my money the “dream ticket”would be Kevin O”Connor and Paul Williams.

Thanks to everybody who participated in the discussion and I think that there will be far more to say as the situation develops over the week. For what it is worth here is where I stand:

Lee Carsley was the obvious immediate short term appointment when the decision made not to continue with Marinus. Who knows how hard he had to be persuaded in order to convince him to take the job and agree to take the reins until the end of the season?

If there was any doubt at the time about his willingness to remain in post until May then it was a mistake to make the statement confirming that he would do so. What I suspect is that Lee did agree to do so, however reluctantly, but soon realised that he had made a mistake and has been actively trying to relinquish his position ever since. This is terribly disappointing given how well he has adapted to the role and the positive response that he has obtained from the squad as is reflected in our improved results and style of play.

We therefore need to make another appointment and whoever we choose will be a gamble to some extent. Clotet is an interesting prospect for all the reasons I outlined in my previous article in terms of his obvious coaching ability and the lovely football that Swansea attempt to play. How will he do when elevated to the Head Coach role and will the players buy into his approach? These are imponderables that cannot be answered.

I suspect that a firm decision has yet to be made and that the situation will not be resolved quickly.

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49 thoughts on “Pep – Yes Or No? – 17/11/15

  1. Jeez Greville I thought better from you – this is like a soap opera from the fans forum ‘The GPG’ – stick to writing your views mate…

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    • I always will and have done too at the end of the article, Nick but sometimes I think it helps to illustrate what others are thinking and it clearly shows that there is a lot of confusion and disagreement amongst supporters. I am certain in my views which are if Carsley will not remain in post then we have to bring someone else in quickly and Clotet ticks a lot of our boxes and I would welcome his appointment.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. I’m very independent Nick thanks, and yes I buy TITS too – anything you object to in what I’ve said?, happy to discuss with you.

    I say fair play to Greville for occasionally sharing a cross section of views, this blog and the comments are fortunately nothing like the GPG. Right point wrong target imo.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Many thanks Greville for an excellent commentary. I just hope the Owner and the Board ofDirectos can come up with a sustainable solution.Supporters and the players will find it difficult to cope with more uncertainty over the appointment of a Head Coach/ Manager due to what many might describe as asomewhat “whimisical” approach to the subject. Brentford is a great football club.It deserves a professional management structure

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  3. Personally really enjoy reading this sort of thing – sincerely held points of view, well expressed and with none of the holier-than-thou attitude you find on the GPG. Your opinion on football doesn’t make you a good or a bad person.

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  4. I’m wondering if this may also be about stalled contract negotiations, would our big players be willing to negotiate and sign new deals with a temporary coach in charge, then add LC’s growing reluctance to stay in the role.

    Just a thought, otherwise we come back to the why do this now question.

    I’d still like to think that JFH could have been on the radar too.

    Agree with Nick and Toby re the GPG, even folks with moderately critical or differing views get serious pelters on there for not toeing the party line.

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  5. Oh God I was trying to put off for as long as possible writing about the players whose contracts are getting uncomfortably close to expiring and how things might turn out in each instance.

    It would certainly help if they knew who their head coach would be so that’s a fair point.

    Does anyone else want to write anything on this subject to help start me off?

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  6. well all this is great stuff and everybody should be able to say what they think this is what living in democracy MEANS and just at this moment of time is very important but just let think about all this the real people and i mean who must be affected the most are THE PLAYERS but they cannot say anything.I remember all very well as a very young man the mayhem we players went through with what 3 mangers in such a short time from the parting of MR Blunstone ect and the trace all that left for years after.I thought my bees as a club had grown up not just on the park but all through the club but from where iam looking we are a long way off and this saddens me .

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    • Hopefully the players can cope as well as Watford’s players, last season.

      As supporters, all we can do is turn up and support our team – like we’ve always done?

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      • I think it has been made perfectly clear by him in several post match interviews e.g Birmingham and QPR that he simply prefers coaching young players rather than managing.

        I really do not think that anything has changed in his attitude or decision making apart from the fact that the impression was obviously given and taken that he would remain in post until the end of the season.

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      • He didn’t want it in the first place, prefers working within development and/or academy, doesn’t feel comfortable with it and probably doesn’t want to fit in with the model… Our best manager for decades Mark Warburton didn’t want it either so I don’t see why there is all this surprise and debate…

        There’s plenty who would want the job but plenty more who wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole with the restrictions in place…

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  7. Was our chairman being too simplistic in his LC appointment statement, or making wild assumptions? Seems really odd to me that he’d put that out without Lee’s agreement. That’s the crux of it all for me. Anyway we are where we are, and it feels like the void created after the MB/MW news broke back in Feb. I’m happy for us to do things differently ad to be innovative, i’m glad we’re not chasing the same people as our local neighbours. BUT we need to find someone who wants to do this job, and if the model is putting good people off surely it can be modified a little. I just want to be able to completely get behind the owner, coach and team again, and to have a feeling that there is something resembling stability in place.

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  8. If Kevin O”Connor were to be offered the job,I am sure he would jump at the chance.I am confident he would have the backing of a vast majority of supporters.But perhaps more importantly I am sure he would command the respect of an excellent squad of players.His loyalty to the club is beyond question.And he would end the uncertainty and provide the stability that we are all crying out for at this vital time in the season.

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    • From Mark Warburton to Kevin O’Connor??

      Love Kev as a player and loyal one club man but not as Head coach or manager for me – could see him doing exactly as he was told though so he might be the perfect fit…

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  9. Far too early for Kevin. He’s barely begun his coaching career and I think he has yet to get his A and Pro Licenses.

    I hope that he will earn the job as he would bring all the qualities that Peter mentioned but he needs to pay his dues first.

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  10. I accept that a Kevin appointment might be premature.But I have been hugely impressed by his interviews on BeesPlayer when giving his reaction to the Development squad games sjnce he has been in charge

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  11. I have just read RebelBee on the SSN report.I can only ask the Brentford Chairman and his Board ofDirectors NOT to repeat the confusion they caused over Mark Warburtons future in February I dread to think what the players must be feeling particularly those whose contracts are due to expire shortly. When willthe alleged new appointment be confirmed or denied? What will Lee Carsleys position be if the appointment is confirmed? Can supporters expect an official statement from the club before Saturdays game?

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  12. The BFC board have not made any public utterance on Carsley since his appointment and have said nothing about their search for a new Head Coach assuming one is even going on.

    Everything that has been said has been speculation coming from other parties.

    They correctly will not say anything until there is something definite to say.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Quite right, Greville.
      I guess having speculation and gossip about Brentford is a small price to pay for being in the Championship, and something we, as supporters, are not used to, yet.

      I doubt there’d be as much written about us if we were still in League 1…

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  13. Greville, do I detect some irritation with those of us worried at the confusion over the position of Brentfords Head Coach/ Manager.? By the way who was the author of the blog headed Pep talk dated 15 November that sparked off this debate? You cast doubt on whether theBFC Board is even searching for a new man. I hope you are correct and your doubt is well founded

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  14. Not at all. We are all entitled to our opinions and I am also worried about the uncertainty but in this instance I am totally supportive of the club.

    Unlike February this situation isn’t of their making but has come about only because it appears that Lee Carsley is not happy to stay until the end of the season as was originally stated and agreed.

    I am pretty certain that we are searching for a new man but the club is not making a public song and dance about it which is exactly the right way to behave.

    We are fans – it is our prerogative to speculate!

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  15. At least you can say it on here Peter, others can and do differ on many things, but the blogs are balanced and the comments all valued. I note that someone has drawn attention to this thread on the GPG in less than positive terms. Enough said really.

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  16. Sooner this is confirmed the better,as far as I’m concerned.Good to see Nick independent just my opinion Hester has now decided to get a part in what he calls a called soap opera.Would love to know how many have turned down working for Matthew Benham as he says many wouldn’t touch the job …who and how many,What restrictions?This is the best time ever for me supporting the club even with the desperate start to the season and much to look forward to over the coming years not everything will be perfect but how many times is it in football.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Perfectly reasonable view Bill and a side of the debate that needs to be heard, but don’t be put out by the fact that not everyone completely shares it. Is the dig at Nick needed – he feels what he feels, he doesn’t know me & doesn’t need me to speak for him, but I do know he supports BFC as passionately as anyone. We have been lacking managerial / coaching stability pretty much since Feb, maybe not a soap opera, but not what you’d expect from the meticulous planner.

    My issue throughout, is and has always been the top level communications and PR at the club. Why say LC is here for the season?

    Sad aspect of modern football is that if the players aren’t on board whoever comes in will fail.

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  18. Just happy that here is another blog/outlet where we can all have debate without it being censored or ridiculed…

    Ha Ha Good Old Bill! – We are thinking of putting him on the pay roll at Thorne in the Side such was the fantastic PR he gave us on the fans forum slagging us off! – Another sell out!!

    Keep going Greville with the unbiased and free to comment blogs – refreshingly different.

    Remain independent matey – and not caught up in all the what ‘you are asked to say’ !!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Glad to help out mate,you needed it as through no fault of your own the club had become a happier place since you went to print.Keep producing TiTs it’s always a good read although,not a dig but think besotted produce some great stuff these days as they go to all the away games and bring a lot of that atmosphere to the punters who are unable to get to games.This is just my opinion though.

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  19. I’d recommend all to post on the beesotted chat emporium thingy, there aren’t so many of us but it has a pretty wide set of opinions and some good banter.

    Like

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